40K: Theorycrafting with Marines and Tau

I thought about posting another Codex review for the new Space Marines, but damn, that shit is everywhere. I mean, come on, do we really need another "Review" of Tactical Squads? Besides a few minor changes here and there in leadership and point costs, they really haven't changed much.

If you're here reading our blog, then I respect you enough to know that you understand how a Tactical Squad works and I'm not going to waste your and my time by going over them again.

So let's get into some of what everyone is actually interested in...finding combinations that are amazing.

I have been looking into a lot of different combinations lately and so far, my favorite combination is Farsight Enclave with some Space Marines. Since they are Battle Brothers, there is tons of hidden stuff in there!

A quick disclaimer here before I get started:

I build lists for tournaments and league play, not casual games. Sure I'll play a casual game here and there on the fly, but if things like "Spam lists" upset you, then this is not the blog for you. If it's an available option to play, well then, I'm playing it.

Starting off, my lists will always include Farsight as he is needed to unlock the others of "The 8." Most notably, O'Vesa and Ob'Lotai.

One of the first things to look at here, is that if you run Space Marines with Farsight Enclave as an ally, you can technically run 2 Riptides; one normal one and O'Vesa.

Yes O'Vesa is very expensive in terms of points, but being able to run 2 Riptides in an ally can be game changing in and of itself, especially when you look at what O'Vesa has to offer.

The other thing to notice is that in the Supplement, concerning the 8, it clearly states that "the Signature Systems rule, left, does not apply to them," which means that even though O'Vesa already comes equipped with an Earth Caste Pilot Array, you can still give one to that base Riptide as well. Double bonus!

The second thing that caught my eye was Ob'Lotai, who is a single Broadside with all the trimmings, including 2 missile drones and a seeker missile. He shoots 3 times as many shots as a devastator squad full of Missile launchers and costs 2 points less...and since he's a independent character he can join a unit of Devastators. Or anything else for that matter...but more on that later.

I currently only run Farsight and a small unit of Crisis suits to clear and grab an objective here and there, so I am really not to interested in the other special suits at this point, but then again, I am just getting started with this combination, so you never know.

So now we know what we are dealing with, lets add the Space Marines into the mix and make shit work.

First question is which chapter to pick. For me there are really only 2 options here, Ultramarines and Imperial Fists.

With Ultramarines, the major draw here is Tigurius. His Psyker abilities alone are absolutely outstanding, but you already knew that. Now let's put him to better use. We are rolling him on Divination all day long, aiming for Forewarning, Perfect Timing and Prescience, which shouldn't be too hard with his ability to re-roll when choosing his psychic powers. This gives an army like Tau, that already has a lot of options to ignore cover, even more options. Add in that he gets to re-roll when casting his powers, and that he is LD10, and you're virtually guaranteed that his powers will work every turn.

If we add Tigurius to a Riptide we get this.
A Riptide, that because of Earth Caste Pilot Array, can re-roll to Nova Charge if it fails, has all Twin-linked weapons from Prescience, so it can re-roll those pesky "Gets-Hot!" results and re-roll the blast template if it scatters, Ignores cover from Perfect Timing, and has a 4++ save.

Now that's a good combo, but kind of expensive, and if we add Tigurius to a Riptide, it severely limits the Riptide's movement. Not too bad for a 1st turn, but lets look a a different option.

Let's add Tigurius to a unit of Devastators, and put them behind an Aegis Defense Line with a Quad Cannon. Then to make it even more entertaining, lets add Ob'Lotai to that unit. That gives us roughly 20 Twin-Linked shots, that all Ignore cover. Who cares if you don't have Skyfire, that's enough shots to take out almost any flyer. Plus the unit has a 4++ save to piss of those Heldrakes. But wait a second, what this? It looks like a free thing that the Space Marine Sergeant has called an Signum! Oh Glorious, Glorious Signum! Let's review what this does for a second.

The codex states:
"At the start of the Shooting phase, a model with a signum can choose to use it instead of shooting. If he does so, one model in his squad is Ballistic Skill 5 for the remainder of the Shooting phase."

Let's see,  who is in this unit, would benefit the most from being BS5...Ob'Lotai of course! "Hittin on 2's!"

To make things even more ridiculous, if you are running O'Vesa, he can join the unit for 1st turn as well to help take out a nasty Deathstar if needed.

Fear of that unit getting assaulted? Ultramarine's Devastator Doctrine is the way to go then. Move that unit back 6" and fire off a barrage of Missile Templates at full BS to thin the incoming unit. This does 2 things. It forces your opponent to decide which unit to assault, and whether or not to multi-assault.

If your Devastators do get assaulted, you get to re-roll those over-watch shots! Speaking of, don't forget that Devastators no longer have to lose their Boltguns to acquire Missile Launchers. So if you are getting them assaulted by a horde or large unit, you can still overwatch with Boltguns to get more shots off.

Unfortunately Psychic powers don't always work out how we plan, and some people like to rely more on consistency. So instead of Ultramarines, let's switch it up to Imperial Fists. Why? Tankhunter.

Same unit as above.
Devastator unit, Aegis, Quadcannon, Ob'Lotai, O'Vesa.

Since only one model in the unit is needed to give it all Tankhunter, and Marines and Tau are Battle Brothers, everything here gets the Special Rule for as long as they stay grouped up, including the Quadcannon itself, and O'Vesa and Ob'Lotai's drones...which is just sick. Group up first turn or two then spread out to take some objectives and win games.

Run some bikes, or a base Librarian...hell I don't even care anymore, doesn't really matter at that point.

I got my new Riptide in mail last night and managed to get most of it together for tonight's game.
I will finally be able to get my Tau on the table.

Here's the list I'm running tonight.

Ultramarines
Tigurius
5 Man Tactical Squad - Veteran Sgt, Flamer in a Razorback - Twin-linked Lascannon
5 Man Tactical Squad - Veteran Sgt, Flamer in a Razorback - Twin-linked Lascannon
5 Man unit of Devastators - 4 Missile Launchers, Signum

Farsight Enclave
Commander Farsight
3 Crisis Suits - Twin-linked Plasma Rifles, Missile Pods, 6 Gun Drones, and Bonding Knives
10 Firewarriors - Shas'ui, Bonding Knives
7 Pathfinders - Shas'ui, Bonding Knives
Riptide - Ion Accelerator, Smart Missile System, Early Warning Override, Earth Caste Pilot Array
Riptide - Ion Accelerator, Smart Missile System, Early Warning Override, Stimulant Injector
Riptide - Ion Accelerator, Smart Missile System, Early Warning Override, Stimulant Injector
Aegis Defense Line + Quad Cannon

I couldn't really find the points to cram in Ob'Lotai for this list but it's still a work in progress.

Hopefully will be able to get a Battle Report posted up tomorrow at some point, but tonight should be interesting to say the least.

40k Battle Report: Iron Hands vs Iron Hands?!?

Last night I headed up to my LGS to test out some new Space Marines with my Sons of Medusa.
Normally at the store on a Thursday there are around 10-12 players which is nice.
Sometimes someone can't find a partner so we try to make due.
Last night however, there were 26+ people at the store...crazy stuff.

Games are randomized, and I get paired up against a player I have played many times before, who is also playing Space Marines...and is also playing Iron Hands...go figure.
Amazingly enough, his army was Brazen Claws and mine is Sons of Medusa...both of which are Successor Chapters to Iron Hands.

Playing behind us was actually a game a Sisters of Battle vs Sisters of Battle...with no allies!! When's the last time you can say you saw that in person...

We rolled up for the game and it was Relic, but no one likes to play Relic so we re-rolled and got Emperor's Will, which we decided was good enough.

Deployment was Dawn of war.

I of course forgot my Aegis Defense Line and Quad Cannon at home so I borrowed and created a make shift Bastion for this game.

Objectives are in Yellow.

He won the roll, and decided to let me deploy and go first.

My List - Sons of Medusa
Master Of the Forge
Terminator Librarian - Mastery Level 2 (Biomancy)
5 Man Tactical Squad in a Razorback with Twin-linked Lascannon
5 Man Tactical Squad in a Razorback with Twin-linked Lascannon
5 Man Tactical Squad
5 Man Tactical Squad in a Land Raider with Multi-Melta
5 Thunderhammer & Storm Shield Terminators in a Land Raider Crusader with Multi-Melta
Devastator Squad with 4 Missile Launchers
Vindicator with Siege Shield
Predator with Autocannon and Lascannon sponsons
Predator with Autocannon and Lascannon sponsons
Bastion with Quad Cannon

Master of the Forge is in the Land Raider with the 5 Man Tactical Squad.

Librarian is in the Crusader with the other Terminators.

The single 5 man tactical squad is inside the bastion, manning the Em-placed Heavy Bolters.

His List: Brazen Claws
Captain with Artificer Armor and a Lightning Claw
Chaplain in Terminator Armor
5 Man Tactical Squad
(Reserved) 10 Man Tactical Squad with a Flamer in a Drop Pod
10 Man Tactical Squad with a Melta Gun in a Land Raider Redeemer
(Reserved) 5 Scouts with Shotguns
(Reserved) 5 Sterngurd with a Heavy Flamer, Combi-Grav, Combi-Melta, Melta in a Drop Pod
(Reserved) 5 Terminators with Powerfists and Storm Bolters
6 Assault Bikers with a Melta-Gun, and Combi-Something
5 Devastators - 2 Lascannons, 1 Missile Launcher, 1 Boltgun, Sgt.
Vindicator
Stalker

All of his units had Sergeants, and they all had melta bombs.
Some of them had plasma pistols.

I placed my Bastion on my side, in the middle of the board, and put my objective right behind it. His objective is in the far left corner, behind a small ruin.

Librarian rolled Iron Arm, and Smite.

I put the 2 Land Raiders on my left with the Vindicator between them, hoping to just push them up the board in a wall.

On the right side of the bastion, the Master of the Forge Bolstered the forest, making it a 4++ cover save. I placed one razorback inside of it, and then the 2 Predators to the right of him, with the last Razoback behind them to negate possible shots from his drop pod assault. (although, thinking back I should have turned it sideways, but I was too excited since I haven't played my Space Marines in almost a year!)

He deployed everything as far back as he could to try to stay out of range of my shots on the first turn.

We roll for night fighting and it is most definitely day time instead.

He grabbed a dice out of habit, and said "Roll to Seize!" and then rolled a 6...
Then he realized what he just did.

He had just placed all of his stuff out of range of my stuff...and now...HE didn't have range on me.

I offered to let him take it back, because I don't like playing against someone, who on turn one is already going to be upset about a mistake, but he said that he wanted to play it out, and maybe get an Alpha strike or first blood on me. I looked around and realized that he had some prime shots on my vindicator if he could get his Drop Pod to stick behind it, maybe even a transport.

Well, here we go...

Turn 1 - Brazen Claws
His Sternguard Drop Pod comes in, and he places it in front of my Vindicator, hoping to pop it on 1st turn, but it scatters over in front of my Crusader instead. I asked why he didn't go behind my transports, and he said he was afraid of going off the table.

He moves his Land Raider in front of his Vindicator to block it.

His Bikes move up a bit to mid field.

The Lascannons on the devastators manages to cause a hit on one of my predators which immobilizes it.

The Sternguard fire off some crap at my crusader, he gets 2 glances, and of course, one penetration...which immobilizes it as well.

He shoots the Land Raider at it as well, but nothing happens.

That was about it for his turn.

Turn 1 - Sons of Medusa

Iron Arm is fails on boxcars and my Librarian is already down to 1 wound...well shit.

Puke and rally right?

I move the Vindicator up a bit into the forest to get a better shot on his Sternguard.

My Land Raider moves up a bit to light up his Land Raider with some blasty goodness.

The Predator that can, moves up a small amount to get line of sight at his Bikers with both Lascannons.

The Terminators Jump out of the Land Raider Crusader and move to a location where they have charge range of the Bikers or the Sternguard. Basically which ever one doesn't completely die to shooting.

Between the guns on the Land Raider Crusader and the heavy Bolters from the bastion, the Sternguard is wiped out quickly for 1st blood. 

The Vindicator, Devastators and Predators manage to unload on the bikes but only take them down to 3 models, due to him making Jink and Feel no Pain saves like crazy.

The other Razorback manages to take out 1 of his devastators. Of course it's the Bolter guy.

The It Will Not Die roll on the Crusader regens a hull point so its back up to 2.

Brazen Claws Turn 2

His Terminators come in, but not the other Drop Pod, or Scouts.

He deploys them off of the beacon on his 1st drop pod and places them in front of my Terminators.

His Land Raider moves up, so does his Vindicator.

The remaining Bikers move around his drop pod toward my other Land Raider.

His Vindicator shoots at my Vindicator, he rolls and only gets a 2 as his highest, giving him 12, which does nothing.

The Bikers shoot at it out of spite, and do nothing to my Vindicator either.

He then shoots his Terminators at my Terminators, which of course make all their saves.

His Devastator Squad unloads one of my Predators and manages to wreck it. Boo!

Sons of Medusa - Turn 2

Iron Arm is successful on the Librarian again, with a 3+/3+.

I pivot the Vindicator just enough for a better shot at the Bikers, and leave the Land Raider in position to fire at full ballistic in case I need the shots.

The Vindicator shoots and manages to take out the remaining 3 Bikers.

The Land Raider and Devastators then manage to explode his Land Raider Redeemer and spill out the guys, taking out 1 from the ensuing explosion.

My Land Raider Crusader and Razorbacks then focus fire into the unit of his Terminators, and take out 2 of them.

I assault into his Terminator with mine and declare a challenge with my Librarian, since he is currently S7/T7.

He accepts but nothing happens and all saves are made.

My remaining Terminators manage to finish off his squad easily.

No hull points are gained back.

His 10 man unit in the remaining crater fail the test and are pinned.

Brazen Claws Turn 3

His 2nd Drop Pod comes in and so do his Scouts.

The Scouts outflank and the Drop Pod comes in, both of which are on my right flank.

He moves up his Vindicator hoping to cause some kind of damage and swing things back into his favor.

Unfortunately it shot and missed. 

At this point in the game he was making the Feel No Pain saves like a mad man, but shooting was causing him problems. Luckily he's a real nice guy to play with, who knows his rules, and was still enjoying the game.

I hate playing in games where the dice just go cold for someone.

He got a little encouragement back when his Tactical squad from the drop pod managed to wreck my 2nd Predator tank. Small Victories.

The challenge was a stalemate once again.

Sons of Medusa - Turn 3

Iron Arm is successful again with a 3+/3+!

I move the Land Raider over towards his deployment zone, to get an angle with both Lascannons on his Vindicator.

My Vindicator pivots back toward his Tactical Squad and Warlord in the Crater.

I leave the Razorback where it is, thereby blocking his units from getting to me, and forcing him to go over it.

I unload the 5 man Tactical Squad that was inside of it and run into cover towards the objective, hopefully out of range of his flamer in that unit.

The Vindicator and Crusader manage to take his 10 man unit down to only 3, and kill his Warlord in the process.

2 of the Devastators and the Heavy Bolters in the Bastion manage to take the other 10 man squad on my right flank down to 7, but fail to take out the flamer.

One Razorback and the Land Raider manage to take his Vindicator down to 1 hull point, and shake it, so at least it cant shoot.

The other Razorback doesn't have line of sight, so he shoots at the Devastators, but does nothing.

Challenge is a stalemate once again.

Crusader Gains back a hull point.

Brazen Claws - Turn 4

He attempts to ram my Land Raider with his Vindicator, but comes 1" short.

His Tactical Squad and Scouts move up towards my objective.

He rushes in his Tactical squad and manages to wreck my Razorback, now creating a wall he has to go through.

I was really hoping it would explode and take out the unit with it, but oh well.

My Librarian manages to finally kill his Chaplain in the challenge and the unit then consolidates toward my objective to play a little defense and prevent him from getting to it hopefully. 

I have the secondaries right now, but if he can contest my objective, it won't matter.

Sons of Medusa - Turn 4

Iron Arm is successful again, but only a +1/+1 this time.

I turn the Land Raider and move flat out towards his objective.

I move the Tactical Squad out of range of his remaining flamer and the Terminators move up to block his path.

I rotate the Razorback to take a shot at his Stalker and prevent him from blowing it up with Bolt Guns from the Tactical Squad he has left.

The Vindicator manages to take out most of the remaining Tactical Squad in the middle of the board as well as the Drop Pod, leaving 1 guy by himself. 

I shoot everything I have on the Crusader at the single Tactical Marine in the middle of the board and manage to cause 8 wounds. He then, in turn, manages to make his Armor and Feel No Pain saves.

The Land Raider snap fires the Multi-Melta into the side of his Vindicator and immobilizes it.

The Crusader gains back another hull point taking it to full again!

Brazen Claws - Turn 5

He moves the 5 man Tactical Squad he has on his objective toward my Land Raider hoping to blow it up with a Melta Bomb, but fails on a 1.

His Tactical Squad move over my wrecked Razorback, and fire off a flamer into my Terminators who all make their saves.

The Stalker attempts to fire and does nothing, and the Devastators don't have line of sight on anything to shoot at.

The scouts move up, hoping to maybe go around the wrecked Predators.

Sons of Medusa Turn 5

Iron Arm is Successful again, with a 2+/2+.

The Terminators move up closer to him to assault and wipe out the unit if needed, and the other unit of Tactical Marines move up within Double Tap range of their Boltguns.

I deploy the 5 Man Tactical out of the Land Raider with the Master of the Forge.

The Land Raider then attempts to Tank Shock his Tactical Squad. He attempts a "Death or Glory" and fails, killing his Sergeant. 

The Flamer from the Master of the Forge's Servo Harness manages to take out the rest of the unit.

The Vindicator shoots at the lone Marine in the middle by himself and it hits, turning him into a fine paste on the ground.

The Librarian casts Smite which takes out his flamer and that was pretty much the end of it.

He then realized that I still had a 5 Man Tactical squad inside the other Razorback, and one in the Bastion, plus the one right outside of it on foot.

That compounded with the fact that I would have his objective next turn meant there was no point continuing.

Victory for the Sons of Medusa

9 points - 0 points

After Thoughts

1. Always make sure to bring everything you need to a game. Even though I forgot my Aegis Defense line, the Bastion did work out pretty well.

2. Iron Hands are ridiculous. a 6+ may not sound like much, but without it, this game would have been over two turns earlier.

3. While the vehicles are ridiculously strong with the ability to regen hull points, I found myself on turn 3 thinking, "Oh shit, how the hell am I going to get Line Breaker?"

4. Being able to bolster a forest to a 4+ is amazing, especially when you put your objective in it.

5. The Terminator Librarian was a horrible idea, made even worse since he only has 2 wounds. If I was running 2 Masters of the forge instead, he could have fixed the Land Raider Crusader on a 3+ and had it back up and moving after turn 1, which is exactly what I will be switching too next time.

6.  We were talking during the game and he asked why I was running a Master of the Forge, after I explained to him that they have a 3+ on the Blessing roll, plus the It Will Not Die roll on a 5+ at the end of the turn, he just stopped shooting at it.

7. Only one person was playing Raven Guard, and he was using them as an ally. All that was left of them in the end was Shrike by himself. He stated that he was extremely unimpressed. This coming from a Veteran Player.

8. There was only 2 people playing Imperial Fists, both of them did extremely well.

9. The people playing Ultramarines were complaining that they were too difficult with the chapter tactics. Personally I believe that Ultramarines will be extremely popular in tournaments, because if you plan turns ahead they can be amazing. It just takes experience I guess.

10. ALOT of people are playing Space Marines. More than you think. 

Be prepared.

40K: Space Marine Codex Review

So much to talk about since I last posted. For me its been like a 2nd Christmas as I am a huge fan of the Space Marines in general including all chapters...except maybe for the Space Wolves. If it weren't for Rune Priests, Long Fangs and Grey Hunters, I probably wouldn't like them at all, just not my cup of tea.

Anyways, back to the codex.

First off, I really enjoy this book. The fluff, the artwork, the descriptions, all of it are exceptional. I also really enjoy the fact that they included most of the 2nd foundings with descriptions and a little history. And the fact that It's not just a static picture of their colors. Nice work GW.

Warlord Traits

In my opinion, besides Storm of Fire and Rites of War they are all crap.

Champion of Humanity is great, but when will that every actually happen in a game against a smart player? Probably never considering they can just deny the challenge, unless you are playing against Chaos.

I think the BRB Traits are considerably better.

Chapter Tactics
These are all great.

Yes everyone loves the White Scars. That obvious, and I'm sure if you are here reading this, then you have read the same thing everywhere else, so I'm not going to waste time going over it. I believe everyone should memorize it because you're going to see a lot of people buying up Dark Vengeance Ravenwing bikers from eBay, and you will see White Scars armies everywhere.
5 out of 5.

Ultramarine Tactics is interesting. I would go Tactical on 1st turn for the shooting advantage, then Devastator on 2nd turn to be able to move those Devastators away from that Heldrake or behind cover and still be able to shoot. Its good but not great.
3 out of 5.

Imperial Fist is a perfect balance. Re-roll for your bolters for anti-infantry and Tank hunter to take out some Vehicles. The best case here I could see would be 2 units of Devastators and a unit of Centurions behind an Aegis, just be wary of the Heldrakes.
4 out of 5.

Black Templars...Everything is Fearless, Has Hatred, and Adamantium Will, which is nice. I still wish rhino rush was a viable strategy as those were my favorite BT lists back in the day, but oh well.
3 out of 5.

Iron Hands, where do I start?! I love these rules. FnP on all models at a 6+, which isn't great, but still gives you a fighting chance against Plasma Weaponry and other AP2/AP3 stuff. All vehicles get It Will Not Die? Crazysauce. And to make it even better, Techmarines and Masters of the Forge get +1 to Blessing rolls! Think about this for a second, 2 Masters of the Forge inside 2 Land Raiders. Those are 90 point HQ choices (who are amazing btw, but more on that later) who can ride in a Landraider, and each turn regen a hull point to it on a 3+. If that fails, at the end of the turn you still get to gain one back anyways by rolling a 5+ for It Will Not Die. Theoretically you could regain 2 Hull points per turn.

This is how you lose friends, and is obviously what I will be running to start my testing purposes. I have enough friends right now.
5 out of 5.

Salamanders didn't change too much and are virtually the same as before, which is good because they were perfect. If it ain't broke don't fix it.
4 out of 5.

Raven Guard, oh how I had big hopes for you and you failed to impress me. The scout rule on first turn is amazing, love that part, but stealth for only 1st turn and the fact that it doesn't affect bulky or very bulky models...well that's where you fail. Guess what's bulky? Assault Marines. Which is the main reason to play Raven Guard in the first place.
While being able to scout Land Raiders is nice, I think that is really the only plus here, but I could be wrong.
1 out of 5.

HQ's

Calgar - Not worth the points in my opinion. There are just so many better Options. Too expensive points wise.

Sicarius - Amazing utility here all around. He can buff a Tactical squad with Infiltrate, Scout, Tank Hunter or Counter Attack. He grants +1 to reserve rolls and lets everyone use his LD for tests, which is also nice considering Tac Squads are only LD8 now, so it saves you points on Vet Sergeants.
He is pretty expensive, but could be worth it depending on your Army List.

Tigurius - This should be the default HQ choice. He's mastery level 3, can roll on any chart, can reroll to chose his powers, can reroll when casting his powers, and lets you reroll reserve rolls. So far, my lists are built around trying to decide if there is a better choice than Tigurius for the points. The majority of the time there isn't. Unless you absolutely have to have another Chapter Tactic, there is no reason not to take him as one of your HQ choices.

If you're thinking about running Space Marines with Tau allies ( I am currently working on my SM/Farsight Amry) he is your go to choice. Perfect Timing and Prescience on O'vesa? Yes Please.

Cassuis - He's Toughness 6, has a 3+/4++ and Feel No Pain...and he has 2 wounds. I...just...what?

Telion - Very nice, but extremely situational.

Kor'Sarro Khan - If you're taking White Scars then you're taking him.
He's too good not too, considering he gives all your transports and bikes scout.
AND he's only 125 points....which is the cheapest of all the named HQ's.

Vulkan He'Stan - While you can take Salamanders without Vulkan, I still think he brings so much to the table its hard not too. It is kind of sad though that Thunderhammers are no longer master-crafted.

Shrike - Unfortunately he can only join Assault Marines now.
His Raven's Talons are OK I guess. But really are just normal Lightning Claws with Rending.
I think there are far better Options, especially for 185 points...

Lysander - If you were thinking about taking Calgar, take Lysander instead, you will be a lot happier.

Pedro Kantor - Love this guy. Make sure to note that he only makes Sternguard SCORING, and does not make them troops choces.
More scoring units is always better and extremely underrated.

Helbrecht - Everything about him is geared toward assault...to bad he's only T4 with no Eternal Warrior. He can also "grant all friendly models that have the Chapter Tactics (Black Templars) special rule, the Hatred and Fleet special rules until the end of the phase." which is nice, except that according to the chapter tactics...they already have Crusader...which already gives them Hatred...redundant is redundant.

Grimaldus - Not bad actually. 3 Wounds, 3+/4++, IWND, Zealot. Alot to like here, but expensive points wise.

Emperor's Champion - This guy will tear up any Melee combat. The problem is getting him there. With only 2 wounds you will want to attach him to a big unit to make sure he doesn't die before hand.
The other problem is, that while he will dominate almost any challenge, this doesn't stop your opponent from denying the challenge, unless of course you're playing against Chaos.

Chapter Master - Just wow. Extra Wound, Extra Attack for 5 points more. Worth it.
You can literally use this guy to build any type of HQ you need.
Also, there is the fact that if you put him on a Bike, you can technically fire normal weapons, then fire orbital bombardment, and then assault in the same turn thanks to the Relentless special rule.

Captain - Same exact stats as last time, but 10 points cheaper. I like things that are cheaper.

Terminator Captain - For when you just have to have a Captain in Terminator armor...whenever that may be.

Librarian - The fact that they lost access to Divination is upsetting. And to get a decent invulnerable save on him, you basically have to double his points immediately.
Since the removal of divination, their job roles in my opinion have completely changed, and I can see a lot of people going other directions with them now.

Chaplain - Almost exactly the same as before. The addition of Zealot is nice.

Master of the Forge - My favorite so far. I love this choice, as I always look for value. How much can I get for the fewest points. The more points I can save here, the more I will have to use in other places.

Pros:
- Only 90 points.
- 2+ Save
- Has a Bolt Pistol, Boltgun, and Servo-Harness with a built in Plasma cutter and Flamer so he can basically adapt to any enemy.
- Bolster Defenses now allow you to bolster ANYTHING besides a fortification up to a 3+. Who does't love the possibility of 3+ cover saves in ruins, or 4+ forest saves? That's like an extra Aegis defense line.
- 3+ Blessing Rolls if Iron Hands is chosen.

Cons:
- No Invulnerable save unless you take a relic.
- Only 2 wounds.

Conclusion:
Personally I love the possibilities right now with a Master of the Forge and some Iron Hands.
The league I play in on Thursday nights is 2000 points, Dual Force Organization. Tomorrow night will be taking advantage of this and running the following list.

HQ

Master Of the Forge
Terminator Librarian - Mastery Level 2 (Biomancy)

Troops
5 Man Tactical Squad in a Razoback with Twinlinked Lascannon
5 Man Tactical Squad in a Razoback with Twinlinked Lascannon
5 Man Tactical Squad in a Rhino
5 Man Tactical Squad in a Land Raider

Elites
5 Thunderhammer & Storm Shield Terminators in a Land Raider Crusader with Multimelta

Heavy Support
Devastator Squad with 4 Missile Launchers
Vindicator with Siege Shield
Predator with Autocannon and Lascannon sponsons
Predator with Autocannon and Lascannon sponsons

Aegis Defense Line with Quad Cannon

Strategy:
5 Man in the rhino will be in reserves to come in for late game objective grabs.

The Master of the Forge goes in the Landraider with the 5 Man Tactical squad. His ability to regen Hull points on a 3+ should keep it mobile and causing devastation every turn.

The ability for him and his unit to assault out if needed to Flame an objective clear, and then steal it, is nice as well.

The Librarian is rolling on Biomancy and attaching to the Terminators in the Land Raider Crusader.
I'm  hoping for Endurance to give his whole unit Feel No Pain, or Iron Arm.
(I have considered going with Pyromancy Powers as well as they could be devastating against Tau.)
This units role is to clog up my opponents lines or take out some riptides and Wraithknights if needed.

When I build a list, I always start with the question of "Can this beat Tau or Eldar right now?" and I think this list should be fairly well. With the amount of Lascannon fire, the Riptides and Wraithknights of the world should fall quickly, then its just mop up duty.

I think it may struggle against flyers, and as much as it pains me, I have thought about dropping the rhino and giving the Devastators Flakk missiles, but that's crazy talk right?

I'll be posting a bat rep on Friday hopefully so I'll let everyone know how it goes.

Other Items of note:

- I think the Skyspear Missile Launcher is better than people think.
- Crusader Squads are extremely good.
- Sternguard are good, but can get really pricey very quick.
- Bike Armies in some shape or fashion will be everywhere.
- Almost everything is cheaper point wise. If you play against Space Marines frequently, then get ready to face even more of them on the table now.

For example, let's compare Blood Angels to New Space Marines.
If we compare a 5 man Tactical squads in a Razorbacks with Lascannons, for the same price Blood Angels can run 2 of those units, Space Marines can run 3 of them with the same exact stats, except that the Blood Angels are fast...that's it.

Grav-Guns
One big controversy so far is the Grav-gun,  and whether or not vehicles get cover saves against it.

My opinion of this debate is that, as of right now, No. Here's Why.

BRB says this: "If the target is obscured and suffers a glancing or penetrating hit, it must take a cover save against it, exactly like a non-vehicle model would do against a wound"

Grav Gun says: "When resolving a hit against a vehicle, roll a D6 for each hit instead of rolling for Armour penetration as normal. On a 1-5 nothing happens, but on a 6, the target suffers an immobilized result and loses a single Hull Point."

Since the Grav-Gun does not technically cause Penetrating or Glancing hits, there is nothing to roll against.

Is this dumb? Most people will say yes, but if you actually read how the Grav technology work it makes sense.

I do believe enough people will complain that GW will FAQ it soon

If this is the way it was intended to be used, then it would explain why Centurions are so expensive point wise, and why they have the limited range.

40K: Space Marines 2nd Large Release of Information

Few more rumor leaks over night. Remember these are still rumors. 

We should have more concrete information after the White Dwarf release.

Relics

Burning Blade: S+3, AP2, Melee, Blind, Incandescent
Incandescent: At the end of an Assault Phase in which the bearer made a successful to-hit roll with the Burning Blade roll a D6. On a roll of a 2+ nothing happens. On a roll of a 1 the bearer takes a S4, AP2 hit.

While this is nice and all, I would rather not take things that can make my Warlord kill himself...

Armor of Indomitus: 2+, 6++, Relentless Same cost as a Landspeeder with a Multi-melta
Once per game during any phase the wearer may choose to temporarily push the forcefield to its limits. For the duration of that phase the Armor Indomitus has a 2++ Invunerable Save.
I can see this being used a lot, depending on point cost.

Shield Eternal: Storm Shield, Adamantium Will, Eternal Warrior

This will be almost a must have item.

Primarch's Wrath: Bolter, S4, AP4, Salvo 3/5, Shred, Mastercrafted
Perfect for a gunline HQ.

Teeth of Terra: S+2, AP3, Melee, Rampage, Specialist Weapon, Strikedown

I really enjoy this, its getting into CC that's the issue.

Standard of the Emperor Ascendant: Same cost as Landspeeder Stom with Multi-melta
Friendly units n 12" with the same Chapter Tactics as the bearer re-roll morale checks and pinning tests. Additionally, friendly units chosen from Codex: Space Marines within 6" of the bearer have the Hatred special rule, and add +1 to their total when determining their assault rolls. Furthermore, the bearer and his unit have the Fear special rule. - Meh.

Wargear
Ranged Weapons: Models may replace their Boltgun or Bolt Pistol with one of the following:
Stormbolter
Combi-Flamer, Melta, Plasma, or Grav
Grav Pistol
Plasma Pistol

Melee Weapons: 

Models may replace their Boltgun or Bolt Pistol with one of the following:

Power Weapons
Lighting Claw
Power Fist
Thunderhammer
Terminator Weapons: (These are restricted to Independent Characters in Terminator Armor)
Storm Bolter may be replaced with:
Combi-Flamer, Melta, or Plasma
Lighting Claw
Thunderhammer 

Power Weapon may be replaced with:
Lighting Claw
Stormshield
Powerfist
Chainfist
Thunderhamer
Will the Powerfist/Lighting Claw HQ that is rampant in CSM make an appearance in the SM armies?

Heavy Weapons:
Heavy Bolter
Heavy Flamer Sternguard and Legion of the Damned ONLY
Multi-melta
Missile Launcher
Plasma Cannon
Lascannon

Special Weapons:
Flamer
Meltagun
Grav rifle
Plasma gun

Special Issue Wargear:
Auspex - Saw this coming.
Melta bomb
Digital Weapons
Teleport Homer
Jump Pack
Bike

Vehicle Wargear:
Dozer blade (Land Raiders can not take)
Storm bolter
Hunter-killer missile
Extra armor

HQ
Chapter Master
Artificer Armor new
Wargear Lists: Relics, Ranged, Melee, Special, Special Issue (Terminator Armor unlocks Terminator Wargear)
Terminator Armor
+1 Wound/Attack over current incarnation
Mounted Assault: If the Chapter Master purchases a bike, all Bike Squads of at least 5+ models may be taken as Troops. - ALL Units? I have seen different rules for this in like 20 different places.
Orbital Bombardment: S10, AP1, Assault 1, 1 use only. - The question here is the scatter roll...

Honor Guard
Relic blades
Chapter Banner
May take Standard of the Emperor Ascendant

Captain
Mounted Assault
Wargear Lists: Relics, Ranged, Melee, Special, Special Issue
Terminator Captain
Seperate entry
Captain in Terminator armor

Command Squad
1 may be taken for each Captain, Chaplain or Librarian in the army
Apothecary
Storm shields
May trade Bolt Pistols for Bolters
Veterans may take Melee, and Ranged, Special wargear
May take Standard of the Emperor Ascendant

Still don't see the point without something like a Salvo Banner.

Librarian
Mastery level 2:
No codex powers
Has access to Biomancy, Pyromancy, Telekenesis, and Telepathy disciplines - No Divination?? This has to be a mistake..
May take Terminator armor for same base cost
Not permitted in Black Templar armies (Black Templars have no rules to prevent allying psykers in)
Wargear Lists: Relics, Ranged, Melee, Special, Special Issue (Terminator Armor unlocks Terminator Wargear)
No Combi-grav

Chaplain
Wargear Lists: Relics, Ranged, Melee, Special, Special Issue (Terminator Armor unlocks Terminator Wargear)
Terminator armor same cost
No Combi-grav

Master of the Forge
Lord of the Armory unchanged
Wargear Lists: Relics, Ranged, Melee, Special, Special Issue
May replace Bolt Pistol or Bolter with Power Axe

Techmarine
May take one per HQ in your army. Does not use a slot
Wargear Lists: Ranged, Melee, Special Issue
May replace Bolt Pistol or Bolter with Power Axe

Servitors
Additional Servitors
Heavy bolter
Multi-melta
Plasma Cannon

Troops
Tactical Marines
Veteran Sergeant upgrade same cost as in DA book
Sergeant/Veteran Sergeant have access to Melee and Ranged wargear
If the unit has less than 10 models 1 model may take 1 weapon from either the Special or Heavy Weapons Wargear lists
If the unit has 10 models one model may take 1 weapon from the Special Weapons list and a different model may take 1 weapon from the Heavy Weapons Wargear list

Scouts
Heavy bolter
Hellfire shells
Missile launcher same cost as wargear list
Flakk same cost as wargear list
Veteran Sergeant upgrade same cost as in DA book
Sergeant/Veteran Sergeant have access to Melee and Ranged wargear
Camo cloaks
Teleport homer
Sniper Rifle
May take a Landspeeder Storm as a Dedicated Transport - With the meta going more toward cheap, mobile troops, will 5 scouts in a Storm be the new go to troop choice?

Crusader Squad
Neophyte base leadership now 8 (Zion's notes: I did check, and the old ones were base 7, they just tested on an 8 because of the Initiates, so please no burning my car down for being "wrong")
1 Initiate may take either a Heavy Weapon or a Power Weapon or a Power Fists
A different Initiate may take a Special Weapon
Sword Brethren upgrade same cost as Veteran Sergeant (same wargear options too)
Has Chapter Tactics: Black Templars
May take a Land Raider Crusader as a Dedicated Transport

Dedicated Transports
Rhino
No changes (wargear prices changed for codex) - Was really hoping for the rumored Rhino Variants but oh well. Maybe in a supplement.

Razorback
Twin-Linked Heavy Flamer now a free option - Heavy Flamer is nice, with all the high strength, low AP weapons out there now, I don't see it making it in range to use it.
Assault Cannon
TL Lascannon
Lascannon/TL Plasmagun

Drop Pod
10 model capacity

Land Speeder Storm
Now a dedicated transport for Scouts
May replace Heavy Bolter with free Heavy Flamer, Multi-melta for 5 points less, Assault Cannon
Jamming Beacon now makes models that are in range roll twice the number of scatter dice that distance they normally would - Opponent rolling 4D6 scatter on deep strikes? Wow, I'm guessing this is wrong.
Cerberus Launcher: 18" S2, AP-, Heavy 1, Large Blast, Blind

Elites
Sternguard
Up to two Sternguard may take a Special or Heavy weapon from the wargear lis
Combi weapons

Vanguard
All models may take weapons from the melee wargear list
Jump packs
Storm shields
Heroic Intervention: Unit doesn't suffer penalties for disordered charges, and Veteran Sergeants automatically pass Glorious Intervention checks - Can't assault after deepstrike...not worth it.

Dreadnoughts
Venerable upgrade
Assault Cannon
TL Lascannon
Left-arm Autocannon
Does not have Chapter Tactics - I really wish they did something with these. I love Dreadnoughts, it's just a shame they aren't really viable right now.

Ironclad Dreadnought
Meltagun option free
No Chapter Tactics

Legion of the Damned
1 model may take one of the following special weapons: Flamer, Melta , Plasma
No grav option
1 model may take a Heavy Weapon from the wargear section
Sergeant may take a weapon from Ranged wargear
Sergeant may replace bolter with chainsword for free, power weapon (same cost as wargear), power fist (same cost as wargear)
All shooting attacks ignore cover
All special rules the same - I still think they are overpriced, but I could be wrong.

Terminators
Heavy Flamer
Assault Cannon
Cyclone Missile Launcher

Assault Terminators
Thunderhammer/Stormshield - No option for Lightning claws? Once again, this has to be wrong.

Assault Centurions
Up to 3 models may be purchased for purchased for the squad
May replace the Iron Clad Launcher with Missile Launcher for free
May replace Twin-linked flamer for a Twin-linked Melta for the cost of a flamer in the wargear section
Sergeant may purchase an Omniscope for the cost of a melta gun. It grants him Night Fight and Split Fire
May take a Land Raider as a Dedicated Transport
Has Move Through Cover, and Extra Bulky Special rules
Decimator Protocols: Models with this rule may fire up to 2 weapons in the shooting phase.

Fast Attack
Assault Squad
Flamer
Plasma pistol unchanged
Veteran Sergeant upgrade same cost as in DA book
Sergeant/Veteran Sergeant have access to Melee wargear, and purchase a Grav Pistol or Plasma Pistol for the same cost
Dedicated Transport rules unchanged

Land Speeder Storm Squadron
Typhoon Missile Launcher
Assault Cannon
Multi-melta, Heavy Flamer, and Heavy Bolter unchanged

Storm Talon
Same as in Death from the Skies - Except for the point change...BS5 against ground targets, and AV11 all around, these could be on a lot of tables soon.

Bike Squad
Veteran Sergeant upgrade same cost as in DA book
Sergeant/Veteran Sergeant have access to Melee and Ranged wargear
Attack bike upgrade
Attack Bikes

Scout Bikes
Grenade launcher upgrade
Locator Beacon
Veteran Sergeant upgrade same cost as in DA book
Sergeant/Veteran Sergeant have access to Melee and Ranged wargear
Cluster mines are now placed by putting a marker in a terrain peice for both players to see. They alsonow turn a piece of difficult terrain into Dangerous terrain. Limit 1 marker per terrain piece.

Heavy Support
Devastator Squad
Veteran Sergeant upgrade same cost as in DA book
Sergeant/Veteran Sergeant have access to Melee and Ranged wargear
Up to 4 Marines may each take 1 Heavy weapon from the Heavy Weapons wargear section - Imperial Fist Devastators with 4 Missile Launchers are also going to be on a lot of tables soon.

Devastator Centurions
Same cost for additional models as Assault Centurions
May replace the Hurricane Bolter with Missile Launchers for the cost of a meltagun
May replace the Heavy Bolters with Lascannons for the cost of 2 meltaguns
May replace Heavy Bolters with Grav Cannon/Grav Amp for the cost of 2 meltaguns
Sergeant may take Omniscope for same cost as meltagun
May take Landraider as Dedicated Transport
Does not have Move Through Cover - "Sgt" with Lascannon, other 2 with Grav Cannons, that's what I'm thinking, its just the point cost that has me wondering.

Thunderfire Cannon
No change - However good luck finding one to purchase if you don't already have one.

Predator

Autocannon
TL Lascannon
Heavy bolter Sponsons
Lascannon Sponsons

Whirlwind

Same as before

Vindicator
Same as before

Hunter
Skyspear Missile Launcher: 60" S7, AP2, Heavy 1, Savant Lock, Armorbane
Savant Lock: When shooting at a flyer or flying monstrous creature, you put a marker on it for each miss. The markers stay on the flyer until it leaves the table, is destroyed or is engaged in close combat. At the beginning of every friendly shooting phase you roll for those markers. On a 5 or a 6 that missile hits vehicles in the rear armor, these shots are resolved using the above profile. - The question is still out whether it can shoot ground targets or not..

Stalker
Icarus Storm Cannon Array: 48", S7, AP4, Heavy 4
Icarus has two firing modes: Single target and Dual Target
Single target: above profile, twin-linked
Dual target: Must be declared before shooting. Pick two targets in range and resolve shooting attacks against them using both of them, but at BS2 - BS2? Ridiculous. I don't see anyone using the Dual Target mode. Even still, the Single target mode is just another Quad Cannon.

All Land Raiders
No points change
"Godhammer" variant now holds 10 models.
No other changes

Storm Raven
No changes from Death from the Skies

Graviton Weapons
All S-, AP2
All have the Graviton rule: Use armor save to wound. 

Against vehicles roll a D6, on a 1-5 nothing happens, on a 6 the vehicle is Immobilized and loses a hull point. Grav weapons do not effect buildings.

40K: Space Marines Rules "Confirmed!"

From 40k Radio (His Copy has been verified)

General Information:
*240 Points for 3 Centurions with Grav-Cannons/Grav-Amps and Hurricane Bolters (for those who hate math, that means it's a 20 point upgrade for Grav-Cannon/Grav-Amps each).
*Assault Centurions have Move Through Cover
*Codex: Space Marines is largely in line with Codex: Dark Angels points wise.
*176 Pages in their copy of the codex (same as rumored)
*Hunter has "Savant-Lock". When shooting at a flyer you put a marker on it for each miss. The markers stay on the flyer until it leaves the table or is destroyed. At the beginning of every friendly shooting phase you roll for those markers. On a 5 or a 6 that missle hits.
*Artwook is nice, and book is Space Marines more in a general form. More updated fluff, not just the rehashed fluff.
*Some of the classic Black and White was colored, but a lot of new art too.
*Book is in sections for each founding chapter (plus the Black Templars)) and a large number of the *Successor Chapters to help players know who should be using what rules.
*Salamanders don't really have any successor chapters because their chapter had suffered a large number of casualties so they have a larger number of Marines in their chapter.
*"Equivilant to Forge World background" in terms of fluff.
*Forgeworld fluff included in the codex.
*Warlord Traits (Only One Chart for the Codex):

1. Angel of Death - Warlord and his unit have the Fear special rule.
2. Imperium Sword - One use only. Declare that your Warlord is using this at the start of one of your assualt phases. The Warlord and his unit have the Furious Charge special rule until the end of the turn.
3. Storm of Fire - One use only. Declare that your Warlord is using this at the start of one of your shooting phases. For the duration of that phase a single friendly unit from Codex: Space Marines within 12" of the Warlord may re-roll any failed to-hit rolls.
4. Rites of War - When taking morale tests friendly units from Codex: Space Marines within 12" of the Warlord use his characteristic instead of their own.
5. Iron Resolve - When determining your assault results add +1 to your total if the Warlord is locked in that combat.
6. Champion of Humanity - If your Warlord causes the enemy Warlord to be removed from play in a challenge he scores D3 extra victory points in addition in the usual amount of points given for slaying the enemy Warlord in this scenario. Note that killing the enemy Warlord in a sweeping advance does not reward these extra victory points.

Chapter Tactics

*Successor Chapters - You use whatever chapter tactics of your parent chapter. The ONLY Exception is the Black Templar.
*Homebrew - You can pick any tactic you want and use the Special Characters of that chapter. Those characters have to use the same Chapter Tactics as the same Chapter their from.
*Allies - "A Space Marine Detachment that has one set of Chapter Tactics MAY ally with another Space Marine Detachment with a different set of Chapter Tactics, Ultramarines and Raven Guard for example. For purposes of the Allies rules these allies are treated as being from two different codexes and are treated as Battle Brothers. Note that you may field models from two different chapters that have the same Chapter Tactics, such as Ultramariens and Praetors of Orpheus in the same detachment. These chapters are so closely affiliated that they count as a single army on the battlefield."
COUNT AS: If you want to use Vulkan in a Ultramarines army you have to play use the Salamander Chapter Tactics. So you CAN do "count-as" but you lock yourself into their Chapter Tactics. In short, Special Characters are locked to their specific Chapter Tactics

Ultramarines - Combat Doctrine: This detachment can utilize each of the following combat doctrines once per game. To do so at the start of your turn you state which combat doctrine you wish to use, if any, until the start of your next turn. You can only use one combat doctrine per turn.
*Tactical: Units in this detachment re-roll ones while shooting, unless they're tactical marines and they re-roll all failed to hit rolls in the shooting phase.
*Assault: Units in this detachment can re-roll their charge range. Assault squads, bikes, or attack bikes instead have the fleet rule.
*Devastator: Units in this detachment may re-rolls to-hit on snap shots, including overwatch shots, in addition models in this detachment's Devastator squads have the relentless unless they disembarked from a transport in their movement phase.

White Scars - BOTH RULES ALL THE TIME
*Born in the Saddle: Models in this detachment with the Bike Unit Type automatically pass Dangerous Terrain tests, and recieve a +1 to their Jink Cover Saves. In addition add 1 to their Strength when resolving their Hammer of Wrath hits.
*Fight on the Move: Models in this Detachment have the Hit and Run Special Rule. Note that this does not include models in Terminator Armor, Devastator Centurions or Assault Centurions.

Imperial Fists - BOTH RULES ALL THE TIME
*Bolter Drill: Models in this detachment may re-roll all to-hit rolls of 1 made with a bolt pistol, boltgun, stormbolter, heavy bolters, or combi-weapons that are firing as boltguns. This rule does not apply to Helfire, Kraken, Vengence or Dragonfire rounds.
*Siegemasters: Models in this detachment in Devastator squads and Centurion Devastator squads have the Tank Hunter special rule and add +1 when rolling on the building damage table.

Black Templars - BOTH RULES ALL TIME
*Accept Any Challenges, No Matter the Odds: When engaged in a challenge, Black Templar Characters reroll all failed to-hit rolls, and have the Rending Special Rule.
*Crusaders: Black Templars have the Crusader and Adamantium Will Special Rules. In addition Black Templars have access to a special unit called a Crusader Squad.

Iron Hands - BOTH RULES ALL THE TIME
*The Flesh is Weak: Models in this detachment have the Feel no Pain on a 6+ Special Rule. Note that if they benefit from more than one instance of Feel no Pain they use the best version available.
*Machine Empathy: All vehicles and characters in this detachment have the It Will Not Die special rule even though vehicles do not have Chapter Tactic special rules. Furthermore, Techmarines and Masters of the Forge in this detachment add +1 to their Blessing of the Omnissiah rolls.

Salamanders - BOTH RULES ALL THE TIME
*Flamecraft: Models in this detachment can re-roll their saving throws against wounds caused by flamer weapons as defined by the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook. Furthermore, flame weapons used by models in this detachment re-roll failed to-wound rolls and armor penetration rolls that don't cause a glancing or a penetrating hit.
*Master Artisan: During the army selection each character in this detachment may upgrade on of his weapons, even one they have purchased as an upgrade, to have the Mastercrafted Special Rule at no additional cost.

Raven Guard - BOTH RULES ALL THE TIME
*Strike from the Shadows: Models in this detachment have the Scout Special Rule. In addition, on the first game turn, models in this detachment have the Stealth Special Rule. Note that units that include models with the Bulky or Very Bulky Special Rules do not benefit from either rule.
*Wings of Deliverance: Jump Infantry Models in this detachment may use their Jump Packs in both the movement and assault phases of the same turn. Futhermore, they must re-roll all failed to-wound rolls caused by their Hammer of Wrath hits.

Special Characters

Marneus Calgar:
● +25 Points
● Artificer Armor standard (2+)
● God of War: May use a single Combat Doctrine twice per game
● Titanic Might: Re-rolls all armor penetrating hits in close combat. He may reroll glancing hits to attempt to get a penetrating hit. Must accept the second roll even if it is worse than the first.
Weapons and Ammo still the same. Terminator Armor still has Frag and Krak Grenades. Retain his Teleport Homer.
● Terminator Armor is 10 points and doesn't prevent sweeping advances.Warlord Trait: Rolls 3 times on the Warlord Table, rerolling doubles, and chooses a single Warlord Trait.

Captain Cato Sicarius:
● -15 points
● Surprise Attack: +1 to Reserve Rolls
● Weapons still the same
● Battle-forged Heros: Pick a Tactical Squad and they gain Counter-Attack, Infiltrate or Scout.
● May still use the Coup-de-Grace with his sword.
● Lost Rites of Battle
● Warlord Trait: Imperium Sword

Tigirius:
● -65 points
● +1 Wound
● Master Psyker: May re-roll any or all of his rolls to choose which powers he knows. He has access to all the powers.
● ML3
● Hood of Hellfire: Psychic Hood that allows you to re-roll failed psychic tests
● Rod of Tigiruis: Same as before with the addition of Soulblaze
● Gift of Prescience: If your army contains Tigirius you may choose to re-roll reserves and apply the result to units of the same attachement.
● Warlord Trait: Storm of Fire

Cassius:
● Zealot
● All equipment the same
● Warlord Trait: Angel of Death

Telion:
● Chapter Tactics: Ultramarines
● Same points cost
● Same rules

Sergeant Chronus:
● -20 points
● +1LD
● His vehicle gains It Will not Die

Khan:
● -35 points (bike is still 20 point upgrade)
● Bike does D3 Hammer of Wrath hits
● Furious Charge
● If Khan is your warlord friendly models with the Chapter Tactics White Scars special rule that are bikes or have dedicated transports have the Scout special rule.
● Khan makes all bike squads who are 5 bikes or more count as troop choices.
● Warlord Trait: Champion of Humanity

Vulkan:
● The Forgefather: If Vulkan is your warlord, all meltas, multi-meltas and combi-meltas in this detachment become twin-linked.
● Lost Digital Weapons
● No longer Master Crafts Thunderhammers
● Warlord Trait: Iron Resolve

Shrike:
● -10 points
● Stealth
● Before deploying Shrike can only join a Jump Infantry unit
● Lost Fleet
● Weapons stayed the same
● Warlord Trait: Angel of Death

Lysander:
● +30 Points
● No more Bolter Defenses
● Icon of Obstinancey: All models with the Imperial Fist Chapter Tactics re-roll failed morale and pinning checks
● Same wargear
● Warlord Trait: Champion of Humanity

Chapter Master Pedro Kantor:
● +1 Attack
● Oath of Rynn: If Chapter Master Kantor is your Warlord all models in Crimson Fist detachments have the Preferred Enemy (Orks) Special Rule. Furthermore, all such models within 12" of Kantor have +1 Attack while he lives. This bonus does not affector Kantor, and is not cimulative with the similar bonuses that the Chapter Banner gives.
● Still has Hold the Line: Crimson Fist Sternguard Veterans are scoring
● Same Wargear and points
● Warlord Trait: Iron Resolve

Helbrecht:
● +5 points
● +1 WS
● Rites of Battle - Gone
● Crusade of Wrath: Once per game, during the Assault Phase, all models with the Black Templar Chapter Tactics gain Hatred and Fleet until the end of the phase.
● Sword of the High Marshalls is the same (+D3 attack on the charge)

Grimaldus:
● -10 Points
● -1 BS
● +1 Wound
● -1 Attack
● It will Not Die (replaced "Only in Death Does Duty End")
● Zealot
● Relics of Hellsreach: Any Black Templar of a servitor in 6" gains a 6++ Invunerable save.
● Unmatched Zeal: Black Templar models within of 6" of Chaplain of Grimaldus have the Zealot special rule.

Emperor's Champion:
● Uses HQ Slot
● +50 Points
● 2+/4++
● Black Sword: AP2, Mastercrafted
● Combat Stances: Smite the Unclean - +2 Strength, Black Sword is two-handed and unwieldy; Slay the Heretic - Rolls of 6s to wound are Instant Death
● Bolt Pistol gives extra attack (unless using Smite the Unclean)

A Quick Summary of what Black Templars Gained and Lost (this list may not be complete):
Losses:
- No More Vows
- No More Marshalls or Castellans
- No More Terminator Command Squads
- No More Master of Sanctity/Reclessiarchy
- Sword Brethren are no longer units
- No More 2 Heavy Weapons in a 5 man Terminator Squad
- No More special rule upgrades (Tank Hunter, ect)
- No More Storm Shields on Assault Squads
- No More extra power weapons in bike squad
- No More Fearless in Close Combat
- No More Righteous Zeal
- Some Flavor
- Most Heavy Weapons +5 more
- No More Power of the Machine Spirt upgrade

Gains:
+ Chapter Master and Captains
+ Honor Guard
+ Regular Chaplains
+ Master of the Forge
+ Tactical Squads
+ Scout Squads
+ Land Speeder Storm
+ Vanguard
+ Sternguard
+ Ironclad Dreadnoughts
+ Centurions (Assault and Devastator)
+ Scout Bikes
+ Devastators
+ Whirlwinds
+ Hunter
+ Stalker
+ Land Raider Redeemer
+ Thunderfire Cannon
+ Crusader Squad keeps Land Raider Crusader as a Dedicated Transport
+ Initiates are 5 points cheaper (counting Frag and Krak Grenade upgrades)
+ Sword Brother option in Crusader Squad
+ Keep Initiate Power Weapon/Fist option
+ Neophyte leadership increased to Ld 8
+ Neophyte Shotguns S4
+ Crusader Squad keeps Pistol and Chainsword option
+ Crusader Squad Organization stays the same

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40K: Space Marine Answers!

Tons and Tons of Space Marine Q&A!!!

via 40k radio and compiled by Zion from Talkwargaming

Most Recent QnA
Q: Is it true that what you guys have is an early playtest material, not the actual printed C:SM codex?
A: I have the final print copy.

Q: Are their any new Special Characters?
A: No.

Q: Is honour guard still 3-10 models, or only available as 5 models similar to command squads or BA honour guard?
A: 3-10

Q: Is relic blade still S+2 AP3 two-handed?
A: Yes

Q: Do Legion of the Damned get Soulblaze like in Apoc?
A: No

Q: Can the LotD still Deep Strike?
A: Yes

Q: Does the LotD still have Slow and Purposeful?
A: Yes

Q: Can the LotD be joined by characters?
A: No

Q: Does Cassius have the Zealot rule?
A: Yes

Q: Do the AA tanks have an alternate fire mode that lets them shoot at ground targets?
A: No, only one firing mode

Q: Can child chapters take the SCs of their parent chapters?
A: No (those are unique to their chapter)

Q: Can Pedro and Lysander be in the same army without using allies?
A: No (CF is one chapter, IF is another)

Q: Are Techmarines slotless HQs like the DA book?
A: Yes

Q: Can Captains still take Artificer Armor?
A: Yes

Q: Do Sternguard combi-weapons still cost 5 points?
A: No, they're 10 points

Q: Does Helbrecht have any other special rules besides the once a game rule that gives fleet/hatred?
A: No

Q: What is the cost of a five man scout squad with a Vet Sergeant?
A: 65 Points

Q: Any changes on Kantor's rules?
A: Basically the same (will be covered on show)

Q: Do bikes and centurions get combat squads rule?
A: Bikes yes, Centurions no.

Q: Is there is any vehicle able to get grav weapons?
A: No

Q: Are neophytes of crusade squad an independent squad that can join the main unit as it was rumoured, or crusade squads are a full unit option?
A: No, like last BT Dex.

Q: Is there option for crusade squads of getting two special weapons?
A: No.

Q: If one crusader squads takes a CLR as transport, it has any point cost reduction?
A: I don't have the BT Dex to check.

Q: Have black templars access to biker scouts?
A: Yes. They have access to everything except Librarians.

Q: Marneus Calgar "God of War" rule is still in there? Has it been replaced by the 3 warlord traits rule?
A: It's different and cool (will be covered on the show).

Q: How many points cost a grav-gun as special weapon on a tac squad?
A: 15 points.

Q: How many points are the lascannon and missle launcher upgrades on the Centurion Devastators?
A: Lascannon is 10, Missile is 10

Q: How much do Relic Blades Cost?
A: Chapter Master and Captain get it for 25 points.

Q: Does the codex include a Power Field Generator (DA Wargear that generates a 4++ for a unit)?
A: No

Q: Can Tactical Marines take a Special Weapon at 5 models?
A: A Squad of 5 can have a special weapon or heavy weapon.

Q: Can Calgar still take up to 3 units of Honor Guard?
A: Yes

Q: Additionally, does his still have the rule that lets him choose to pass or fail morale checks at will?
A: Yes (more in the show)

Q: Are Black Templar Characters required and/or accept challenges?
A: Not required, but they will be sick in challenges

Q: Bikes squads that can be made troops, a minimum of 5 models or 5 models max? there is some conflicting sounding information so people just want to confirm.
A: At least 5 (max 9 with Attack Bike) and if your Captain or Chapter Master is on a bike you make take them as troops.

Q: So Chapter Masters on bikes can unlock bike squads of at least 5 models as troops too?
A: Yes.

Q: Do LotD still have their 3++ save?
A: Yes

Q: Can the Bikers take the grav gun options?
A: Yes

Q: Can Scout Squads take locator beacons or teleport homes?
A: Teleport Homers.

Q: Does Shrike have any other rules?
A: No.

Q: Do Chapter Tactics cost anything?
A: No.

Q: The Stalker, does it have 4 shots total that it can split fire with or does each gun fire 4 shots each?
A: 4 shots each (this will be covered on the show)

Q: Do any of the SC's have Stubborn or Fearless?
A: No

Q: Does the Emperor's Champion take up an HQ slot?
A: Yes

Q: Does Sicarius still re-roll his Sieze Initiative attempts?
A: No

Q: Any change to Razorbacks?
A: I believe they went up 5 points

Q: Does the Ultramarines Tactical Chapter Tactic affect Sternguard special ammo?
A: I believe so.

Q: Also, are bike upgrades for Space Marine Captains cheaper?
A: I think the upgrade stayed the same.

Q: Are normal bikes cheaper?
A: Yes

Q: Are all these answers from an early rendition or playtest and subject to change? Or are these concrete answers from a full codex?
A: The book I have looks like the final. If this is a fake then a ton of effort has gone into this.


Q: Is there any way to assault from vehicles besides assault ramps on land raiders and stormravens?
A: The Land Speeder Storm.

Q: How do Successor Chapters work exactly?
A: This will be covered on the 1 Sept show. The answer is really long and it's easier to just explain it verbally than type it out.

Q: If you have two different chapters that use the same chapter tactic, can they ally to each other?
A: This will als be covered on the 1 Sept show.

Q: How do Camo Cloaks work?
A: +1 to cover, or 6+ cover if not in cover

Q: Can any of the HQs get Camo Cloaks?
A: No

Q: Is there a way to get Eternal Warrior?
A: Yes (will be covered in show (Zion's Speculation: It's a Relic))

Q: Can any of the HQs buy any special rules?
A: No

Q: Do the HQs still have access to Hellfire rounds?
A: No

Q: Can we get a rundown on what Grav Weapons will cost?
A: Grav will be on the show.

Q: In 5th Edition you were encouraged to use SCs as "Count-As" special characters to give you some new/interesting combinations. Is there anything in the new book that allows you to do this?
A: You can no longer do that due to Chapter Tactics.

Q: Just to confirm, this means the Camo Cloaks and the Raven Guard Chapter Tactic stack, right? +2 to their cover saves for having both?
A: They do stack, but there is a caveat to the Raven Guard rule that will be covered on the show. All Chapter Tactics will be covered on the show.

Q: BT High Marshal (Chapter Master equivalent?) Helbrecht has no Orbital Bombardment, but BT can take a "regular" Chapter Master and get the OB from him?
A: Correct, Helbrecht does not have it, but regular Chapter Masters do.

Q: Have Razorback weapon upgrades gotten cheaper, more expensive or stayed the same?
A: Some went down.

Q: How much do Relic Blades cost for Honor Guard?
A: 10 points.

Q: You mentioned that the Raven Guard Chapter Tactics have a caveat. Do all the Chapter Tactics have special caveats in how they can be used?
A: No, there are other rules for RG we didn't mention.

Q: Do these caveats require certain minumum requirements of units or wargear?
A: No.

Q: Are the Drop Pods priced like the DA ones (to include upgrades)?
A: Similiar.

Q: When making an army, are you required to take a chapter trait?
A: Yes.

Q: Is the Exorcists Chapter covered in the list of different Marine chapters/successors in the book?
A: Yes, there is a small blurb, but the do not have a parent chapter.


Q: Are any of these caveats negative things (like the old 4th edition flaws)?
A: No. The caveat is we have not revealed all the abilities for some chapters.

Q: Is there any clue you can give us on the nature of these caveats?
A: There are many layers to the CTs (no negatives).

Q: Did the points cost change for Power Weapons?
A: Generally the same, per units choices.

Q: Did the points cost change for Power Fists?
A: PF same.

Q: How much do Crusader Squads pay for Power Weapons?
A: 15.

Q: Can the Initiate in a Crusader Squad take a Power Fist?
A: Yes at 25 points.

Q: How does the limit for the extra power weapon in the Crusader squad work. Is it just 1 Initiate or is it 1 per X number of models in the squad?
A: 1 Initiate and then upgrade one to Sword Brother and you can get another.


Previous QnA
Q: How do scouts look?
A: The scouts went down 2 points and they can now take a Storm as a dedicated transport. They mostly stayed the same.

Q: How about Marines?
A: Tactical Marines are 14 points each.

Q: What do Raven Guard get?
A: Raven guard get stealth and the ability to use their jump packs in the movement and assault phase.

Q: What are the Imperial Fists chapter traits?
A: IF get bolter drill and that allows them to re-roll any 1s, it does not work with sternguard special rounds. Also Devs and Centurion Devs get Tank Hunters special Rules with a +1 on damaging buildings.

Q: What did Salamanders get?
A: Sallies get to re-roll any failed armor saves from flame based weapons, also with their flame weapons they get to re-roll any failed wounds or armor penetration that fail to cause a penetration or glancing hit. Also any character gets to master craft one weapon for free points.

Q: What's up with the new tanks?
A: both weapons are S7. The Hunter is AP2 and has armorbane so it should handle most flyers out there.

Q: What do the Templars look like?
A: Vows are gone. BT come with Chapter Tactics just like all the other marine army. One allows you to re-roll to hits rolls and rending, when you're in challenges. The other one gives you Adamantium Will and Crusader. Also their ally matrix did not change.

Q: How do homebrew/unknown lineage chapters work?
A: If you're an unknow founding or a home brew chapter you can pick what Chapter Tactics you want.

Q: What's the situation with Crusader Squads?
A: The crusader squads are cool because you can have up to two power weapons in the squad, if you take a Sword Brother. The Initiates are fourteen points and come with bolter, bolt pistol, frag, and krak. You may exchange the bolter for a ccw for the price of free.

Q: Any new wargear (along the lines of auspex from DA codex)?
A: There is new wargear for Chapter relics, 6 of them.

Q: How high is the rate of fire for the other AA tank?
A: Stalker has RoF 4 and the Hunter has RoF 1.

Q: Can you please confirm whether or not pure bike armies are no longer legal to field?
A: No you can not. You get the option to take 5 bikes as a troop if your captain has a bike, also your command squad can have bikes.

Q: Are storm ravens/storm talons in the book. or are we required to use "Death from the Skies"?
A: Yes they are in the book and you do not need Death from the Skies.

Q: Do UM retain their "fall-back from combat and may act normally" ability? Thanks in advance!
A: No that rule does not exist anymore. Like all the chapters their Chapter Tactics are set.

Q: What is going on with the Emperor's Champion?
A: The Emperor Champion is and HQ choice and for his points will be a good character hunter. Those abilities no longer exist, they're just gone. The chapter Tactics they get are called "Accept any Challenge, No Matter what the Odds" and "Crusaders"

Q: Does special characters still add the USRs/special rules that they have in this codex to your army/squad? EX: Shrike and Infiltrate? Pedro and +1 Attack aura?
A: Yes some SC still have USR that boost their army.

Q: Is it finally possible to take jump packs for our command squads?
A: No, Only bikes.

Q: Can you confirm/disprove the "special" Rhino variants that were rumoured? EX: Medical, Recovery, etc.
A: Those do not exist. That was wish listing.

Q: Could you shed some light on the UM special rules?
A: Ultra marines are a little lengthy but they choose the doctrines of Tactical, Assault, or Devstator. The Tactical detachment re-roll ones, unless they're tactical marines and they re-roll all failed to hit rolls in the shooting phase. The Assault detachment re-rolls charges, unless they're assault squads, bikes, attack bikes and they get fleet. The Devastator detachment get to re-rolls on snap shots and overwatch shots, unless they're Devastators and they gain relentless as long as they're not disembarking from a transport in the movement phase.

Q: Are there any special banners that can be taken? EX: Banner of Devastation from DA Codex, etc.
A: No, that is more wish listing. You can have the good old Chapter Banner.

Q: Did sternguard special ammo change at all?
A: Remained the same, SG went down to 22 points

Q: Are there any other scoring units besides sternguard, tac, and scouts?
A: Only Tac and scouts. SG if you take Kantor and 5 man bike squad if you take a Captain on a bike.

Q: Any changes at all to the Black Sword or is the EC just some sort of challenge monkey now? I wonder what "for his points will be a good character hunter" could mean.
A: EC has an AP2 sword striking at initiative and if you add the BT Chapter Tactics be becomes a challenge machine. He also has 2+/4+.

Q: Thank you so much, a final question, the BT situation sounds like we were better off with a 4th ed codex, do the special characters give anything special? What does Helbrecht and Grimaldus look like and do for the army?
A: No they do not add anything. They've been basically upgraded to 6th ed. For a BT will be happy with all the options they will have.

Q: Just out of curiosity, does Accept any challenge give them rending in Challenges, or allows them to reroll rending throws?
A: They have rending.

Q: Is there any way for Templars to have access to CC boosting USRs via characters?
A: Once per game Helbrecht can give Hatred and Fleet in the Assault phase. It only works on units with Chapter Tactics(Black Templars)

Q: Any idea if the Champion is still BT-only or they opened it up for other chapters that have them in the fluff (IF and CF for example)?
A: EC are only for BT armies.

Q: Is that 3-5 man bike squad as troops, or 5-10 man bike squads to count as troops? Also, is the attack bike still an upgrade to a bike squad, as well as a separate choice?
A: Its a 3-5 man. You can upgrade one to an attack bike.

Q: how big can a crusader squad be?
A: Up to 10 Initiates and up to 10 Neos.

Q: what USRs do Helbrecht and Grimaldus provide?
A: Grimaldus gives Zaelot

Q: what units are restricted to Templars?
A: Only librarians

Q: how do Castellans work?
A: You pick either a SM captain, Chapter Master or Termie Captain.

Q: Does the Emperor's Champion's sword still have the +2 to strength in addition to being AP2?
A: Yes if you pick that stances, but counts as two-handed. the other stances gives you rending.

Q: And does the 4++ invulnerability now work outside of close combat, too?
A: Yes he is always 2+/4+.

Q: can castellans/marshals take command squads
A: Yes they can take command squads, but they are just Captains now.

Q: can Helbrecht take an honor guard
A: Yes because he is a Chapter Master

Q: what USRs and where in the Force Org chart are normal chaplains
A: Chaplains are HQ and Zealot.

Q: which HQ choices actually take up a slot, and which ones don't
A: Chapter Masters, Captains, Chaplians, and Librarians. BT can not take librarians.

Q: did the costs of dedicated transports change?
A: Only major change to dedicated transports is the Storm moving there.

Q: also, do you mind sharing any changes to devestator costs or the potential load-outs for tac squads?
A: Devs went down. Close to Dark Angel book.

Q: any way to get 2 special weapons?
A: No way to get 2 specials.

Q: Are grav weapons solid shots or blast? Do they have any other special rules ex: haywire?
A: Solid shot and they have concussive

Q: Any improvements to dreads?
A: Dreads are basically the same.

Q: Are the whole range of Ultramarines Special Characters still in there?
Calgar, Tigurius, Cassius, Chronus, Telion, and Sicarius?
What do they do nowadays?
A: Yes all Ultra characters are in and are Virtually the same. Calgar can take three Warlord traits and went up in points. He's a beast.

Q: If BT indeed use regular SM Chaplain entry, do the chaplains have two or three wounds, and two or three base attacks?
A: W2 A2

Q: Does Lysander give any special rules?
A: No. He went up in points but he is still gnarly.

Q: Can Sternguard become Troops?
A: No they can not. Kantor allows them to be scoring.

Q: Does Lysander still have Eternal Warrior?
A: Yes, he still has EW.

Q: You covered BT, UM, Ravenguard, Fists, Salamanders, and Iron Hands. Is that all of the chapters? Or are there more special chapter rules for other chapters?
A: If you play a successor chapter you will use the Chapter Tactics of the Founding Chapters. The codex covers a lot of the successor chapters.

Q: So to confirm, you can't take an all bike army?
A: Yes but you have to take 2 captains so you can get two bike squads to be troops.

Q: Any change to Honor Guard?
A: They went down in points. That is their big change.

Q: Is there any way to get an extra attack on tacticals? Such as a combat blade?
A: There is no way to do that.

Q: Did Vindicators change in price or function?
A: Right about same points. No big change, basically the same.

Remember that CF with use the Imperial Fist Chapter Tactics.

Vanguard Veterans are 19pts without jump pack and 22 points with jump pack. Heroic Intervention does not work the same as last codex.

Q: Can we just get the whole Centurion statline out of the way once and for all?
A: WS/BS 4 S/T 5 W2 I4 LD8/9 Sv 2+

Q: Any changes to Shrike or Kor'sarro?
A: Shrike can only infiltrate with jump infantry.
Khan give scout to bikes and mounted troops. His bike does D3 Hammer of Wrath hits.

Q: For salamanders. Do flame weapons include melta and flamestom cannon. Also what does vulkan do for the army?
A: Only for flame weapons covered on page 56 of the Rulebook. Meltas get twin-linked if you take Vulkan.

Q: For BT Chapter tactics, is the reroll and rending only in a challenge? Or is it reroll all the time and rending in challenge?
A: Yes that is only in a challenge. When in a challenge you get to re-roll your To Hit rolls and all attacks have rending.

Q: How many attacks do the Centurians have?
A: 1A and Sgt 2A. The drills give a bonus attack to the assault version...

Q: Would you happen to know if the capacity on the land raider is still 12?
A: LR = 10, LRC = 16, and LRR = 12

Q: Are there terminator command squads?
A: No Termie command squads.

Q: What buffs does Lysander have other than EW?
A: Gives all units in 12" with Chapter Tactics (IF), re-roll on morale and pinning test.

Q: So only characters benefit from the BT chapter tactic?
A: Yes for challenges. Your army also gets Crusader USR and Adamantium Will USR.

Q: What does Grimauldus specifically give? You mentioned Zealot, is that army wide?
A: No army wide rule. Zealot USR works for him and the unit he is in. If a units is within 6" of the servitors they get a 6+ invul.

Q: Any special characters for Iron Hands?
A: No Iron Hands Characters.

Q: Any changes to the Master of the Forge?
A: Master of the forge is almost the same. He will get "It Will not Die" USR and a 1+ to Blessing of the Omnissiah from the IH Chapter Tactics.

Q: Is it possible to give the MoF invl save now? < big iron hands player wanna run a themed force with ironfather HQ but i think ill need the invl for CC
A: Looks like 6+ FNP will be the best you can get unless you take a Chapter Relic, which gives a 6+ invul.

Q: Is that +1 to the blessing for IHs a specific rule of the MoF or part of the IH traits that applied to all techmarines?
A: +1 is only for IH Chapter Tactics

Q: And does bolter drill still work on all bolt weapons (minus the sternguards) or just rifles/combirifles?
A: All Bloters on page 56 of Rulebook and combi-wepon bolters. You can not use it on the special ammo that the sternguard use.

Q: What are the White Scars Chapter Traits?
A: +1 to jink save, Auto pass on dangerous terrain, +1 to Hammer of Wrath attacks, Hit and Run except for termies and both sets of Centurions.

Q: What does Khan do?
A: He gives Bikes and Transports the Scout USR

Q: What are the options for the Crusader Squads?
A: Crusader squads are basically the same as last BT. You get the option of a Sword Brother upgrade(Vet sgt). So you could put 2 power weapons in one squad. There can still be up to 20 models in one unit.

Q: Has Marneus Calgar changed at all?
A: Calgar gets three warlord traits, his armor does not prevent him from preforming a sweeping advance, and he went up in points. He's a supreme badass but you pay for it.

Q: Are those big fists on the shooty Centurions powerfists? What about the assault version- do they strike at initiative because they have Ironclad assault launchers?
A: Centurion Devs do not have PF. The Assult Centurions do strike at initiative, the drills are not unwieldy.

Q: Are black templar's still prohibited from allying with non-grey knight psykers? (Sanctified Psykers, Inquisitors with Psionics, etc)
A: BT are still Ally of Convenience. You will still follow the rule book.

Q: And does the Emperor's champion take up a force organization slot?
A: No.

Q: What chief librarian tigurius? Is going to give other pysker's a run for their money?
A: I think Tigurius is easily the most improved SC. He will be very tempting for Ultramarine players and he comes in relatively cheap. Overall A+ over last edition.

Q: Can the Emperor's Champion be taken as the Warlord?
A: Yes because he is taken as a HQ choice.

Q: Is Calgar above 300 points?
A: Calgar is 275

Q: Have TH/SS termies gone up in price?
A: TH/SS Terminators cost +5 points

Q: What're the rules for the Assault Centurion's drills?
A: S9 AP2 Melee, Specialist Weapon, armorbane, strikes at initiative

Q: What is Grimaldus' stat line like? Any variations from a standard chaplain? And does he have anything like Eternal warrior or IWND?
A: He has "It will not Die", no EW.

Q: Any special BT items or upgrades?
A: Nothing special for Black Templars, you just get the full access to the codex. So you get Vanguard, Sternguard, Centurion and so on. You have the ability to put multiple power weapons in crusader squads. One is a non-character which can not be challenged. You get to hide a power weapon.

Q: Is there any limitations to the EC? Can anybody take one?
A: EC can only be taken by BT and they're a HQ choice.

Q: Is a "Castellan" a BT sgt in a vet squad?
A: Castellans are gone. Vet Sgts are Sword Brothers.

Q: Mind a rundown of the 6 Chapter Relics?
A: he relics consist of two swords, one bolter, set of armor, one storm shield and one banner.

Q: Are there Space Marine Warlord Traits?
A: Yes, one chart for all armies.

Q: Does Imperial Fist Bolter drill give rerolls to hit and to wound of 1? Or just to hit?
A: To hit rolls of 1's.

Q: Is Telion cheaper/different?
A: Telion is the same points and all updated with sniper rules for 6th

Q: Same with Chronus? Is he worth considering now?
A: Chronus is cheaper but still not worth it. Just increases the BS by 1

Q: Is the basic Chapter Master differentiated from a Captain with more than orbital bombardment?
A: CM has A4 and W4 and access to honor guard as command squad.

Q: Does the command squad of a master have better/different options than a captain?
A: It's Honor Guard.

Q: Is the Storm Raven more expensive in these new rules? Different in any other ways?
A: Storm Raven stayed 200 points.

Q: What sort of special tricks does Tigirius bring to the list?
A: Tight is ML 3, knows all disciplines, he can re-roll his dice when determining his psychic powers, he can re-roll reserves(even successful ones), HoH is a psychic hood and he can re-roll failed psychic test.

Q: are drop pods still 12 to a pod?
A: Dop pod is back to 10.

Q: Landraider redeemer the same?
A: LRR is 12

Q: How is Heroic Intervention different?
A: They do not get the penalty for disordered charge and Sgt auto passes initiative check for Glorious Intervention.

Q: Two small questions on the new tanks: what are their AV values? And do either of them have interceptor?
A: AV 12 12 10 and no interceptor, I repeat no interceptor.

Q: Do the Vanguard Veterans still get to assault the turn they deep strike jump packs then?
A: No. That rule is gone.

Q: How many wounds and attacks does Grimaldus have?
A: Grim is W3/A3

Q: And are Reclusiarchs in the codex?
A: Reclusiarchs are gone. There is one Chaplain to chose from.

Q: For those with non first founding chapter & BT, is there a system of making your own chapter tactics(like the chapter traits from the 4th edition codex)?
A: No. You will have to chose out of the Chapter Tactics provide.

Q: Did the predator tanks and devestators have their prices modified in the codex?
A: They both got point decreases.

Q: Is the old Power Armored Marneus Calgar mini nonexistent?
A: He's in Artificer armor. For 10 points more he gets Termie armor.

Q: Are there any new Ultramarine Characters?
A: No new characters.

Q: Does Orbital Bombardment still exist?
A: Yes

Q: Is Calgar's Termie Armor the same? Built in Teleport Homer, or does it do anything special?
A: Same, but let's you sweeping advance in Terminator Armor and still has homer.

Q: There are so many BT on because we are getting screwed by GW who is basically trying to make us in to a lame variant of a codex chapter, something we are definitely not. The more I read, the less I want to continue playing 40K.
A: I think the BT are better. You have more options than you know what to do with and most if not all of your troops are cheaper. It's not that bad.

Another BT player raising his complaints....
Q: More options but if CC crusaders are not getting any bonus in CC then BT are WORSE in CC then with the 4th ed book and because termies will get 1 less heavy weapon in a squad of 5 BT Gunline will have less missiles
A: Those things had gone they way of the dodo bird a half a decade ago. Even if they got their own dex there ways no way that you were still going to get two heavy weapons in five termies and other outdated rules.

Squads are just as good as there 4th codex iteration. They're cheaper, they come with frag/krak grenades, up to two power weapons, 2 flyer types, and the list goes on. There are far more pluses than minuses.

If you were banking on rules that are old and outdated then you will be disappointed. If you look at all the options then you will be excited about the possibility and the flexibility that the new dex offers.

Back to the Q&A:

Q: Ironclads the same?
A: Ironclads are the same.

Q: About Honor Guard, have they gotten cheaper? Has the chapter champion got more bad ass or is he still...meh?
A: Honorguard are cheaper and the company champion is the same, at least he's cheaper.

Q: landspeeders the same? Or similar to the dark angels cost wise? Doubt they get 1-5 too.
A: Speeders are 1-3

Q: What about Cassius and Sicarius?
A: 1)Sicarius is 15 points cheaper and basically the same.2)Cassius is 5 points more.

Q: Any change regarding the Whirlwind?
A: Nope. Missiles do the same and its 65 points.

Q: Does IF bolter drill only apply to boltguns/bolt pistols (minus special ammo) or does it apply to hvy and hurricane bolters as well?
A: It works on every bolter on page 56 of the rule book. Hurricane bolters already get a re-roll and you can't re-roll a re-roll.

Q: Can you give the full breakdown of grav-weapons? S value? how do they work v. vehicles? difference between grav gun and grav cannon?
A: Grav weapons wound the target based on their armor save. For example a terminator has a 2+ save so they would be wounded on a die roll of 2+. Against vehicles roll a die, 1-5 does nothing and on a 6 the vehicle is immobilized and loses a HP.

Q: Did the Codex Powers change?
A: They use the psychic powers out of the rule book, so null zone and the other powers are gone.

Q: What are te ranges on the new Grav Guns? Are they rapid fire?
A: Pistol: Range 12", Gun: 18" salvo 2/3, and Cannon: 24" salvo 3/5

Q: Did the dreadnoughts gain any rules (like the rumored Inspiring Presence)?
A: No, I think that's more wish listing.

Q: Do the Devs get Flakk Missles?
A: Yes. They have to pay and additional 10 points.

Q: Can Honor Guard get and invunerable now (storm shields)?
A: No.

Q: Is there some caveat to the first half of the UM tactical rule (like..i don't know,does not work on heavy weapons for example...) or is it just a plain better version of the IF one even without the extra bonus for tactical squads?
A: It will work on any weapon that rolls a 1, while the IF only works on bolter type weapons.

Q: How many points are the Scout Bikes?
A: 18 points

Q: Did they change the Cereberus launcher on the LS storm? used to be -2 leadership to enemies assaulted after disembarking.
A: It's not the same. It's range 18" S 2 large blast Blind.

Q: Do BT get Land Raider Redeemers as Dedicated, or only Land Raider Crusaders?
A: Just LRC.

Q: Out of intrest, is there anything in the book that stops BT from allying with a psyker? (I know they cant take one)
A: Im not seeing anything that will stop you from allying.

Q: Any change to the Sternguard ammo types?
A: Same as before

Q: Who can take the Grav Weapons?
A: Basically anyone who can take special weapons or pistol upgrades. They heavy one is only on the Dev Centurions.

Q: How much cheaper are Honor Guard exactly?
A: They dropped 25 points.

Q: Does the Signum still work the same?
A: Yes it give one member BS5

Q: So they actually gave the straight better rule to ultramarines (at least with other chapters they have different rules...Here it's just...better)...That makes me kind of sad.
A: Not really you have to invest a lot points into Tac squads and there essentially picking your army for you.

Q: Do you have the points cost for AA tanks?
A: Stalker = 70, Hunter = 75

Q: Do any units have Interceptor?
A: No.

Q: Has libby base cost decreased?
A: Yes, Psyker down to 65 points.

Q: Oh, do the Chaplains get any melee weapon options, or are they stuck with Crozius only?
A: They have other power weapon options and they can also have Chapter Relics.

Q: With the Ultramarines Chapter Trait do you choose, or is it based on how you build your army?
A: You choose but it will kind of force yourhand to build a certain way to take advantage of CT.

Q: Do Grav have haywire as some early rumors suggested?
A: Grav have concussive.

Q: On the stalker model it seems that its two weapon turrets can move seperatly, there was also a rumour before that they could split fire. Is there any indication of this or does the stalker simply have a s7 heavy 4 gun?
A: You're very astute. There is an option to fire at two targets with a lowered BS.

Q: What are the specs of the flame launcher on LoD with ignores cover USR?
A: All shooting attacks ignore cover saves.

Q: Do we get interrogator chappie/reclusiarch?
A: No, basic Chaplain for all.

Q: Did shooty Terminators get better/cheaper?
A: Heavy Flamer went up in points, while assault cannon and cyclone saw a same points decrease.

Q: How many points costs Tigurius now?
A: 165 points. Down 65 points.

Q: How much do ML 1 and 2 librarians cost?
A: ML1 = 65 and ML2 is a 25 point upgrade.

Q: Does Thunderfire Cannons get any advantage of IH Chapter Tactics? I mean, FNP or It never dies? Their techmarine gets de +1 on Omnissiah's blessing?
A: Yes the Techmarine would get FNP, +1 Omniissiah, and it will not die.

Q: Has auxillary grenade launcher changed?
A: 24" rapid fire.

Q: Are Tactical Squads basically the same as in Codex:DA, as far as organisation and equipment options go?
A: Yes

Q: Grav Amp lets you reroll wounds, that's the only information on it that has come out so far.
A: Grav Amp allows you to re-roll failed wounds and armor penetration with grav weapons.

Q: Are Vanguard Vets for sure FA or Elites?
A: They are elite.

Q: Does Vulkan get Eternal Warrior?
A: No.

Q: How many points is Vukan and does he still mastercraft Thunder Hammers?
A: Vulcan is 190 and he no longer upgrades thunder hammers to MC.

Q: Can you mix your army. Like have some units be ultra marines and others be salamanders?
A: Yes. They're allowed to ally out of the same codex.

Q: Can Independent Characters (captain, chapter masters, techmarines,etc) take centurion armour as part of their wargear?
A: No, that is not a wargear option.

Q: Can non-Black Templar armies (homebrew/unknown founding chapters) choose the Black Templar Chapter Trait? If they can do they have to take Crusader Squads instead of Tactical Squads?
A: The writing on it is a little vague. I would say yes but it may need a FAQ to clear it up.

Q: Any Salamander Relics?
A: No Sally Relics. The are space marine relics shared by all chapters.

Q: Any idea how grav weapons work against units with mixed armor saves ie Dlord + Wraiths?
A: It does not but I would figure you would wound on the majority armor save.

Q: And do Chapter traits work for allied detachments?
A: No, some SC characters have abilities that effect other units but they must have the same CT to receive that bonus.

Q: Any new pieces of common wargear like DA got (auspexes, infravisors, power field generators, etc.)?
A: Mostly grav weapons, Omniscopes, new weapon types for the AA weapons and generally moving wargear to be inline with 6th Ed.

Q: I keep hearing Vulkan twinlinks Melta and is the same, although it would be a mercy if someone came out and said there are no MC thunder hammers. Can you please confirm? Also I just saw on Natfka that Sallies get to re-roll armour saves from flame weapons including Melta- does this mean invul saves as well?
A: 1)Vulkan TL meltas
2) He does not master craft TH anymore.
3) Only works on flame weapons which are on 56 of the Rulebook.

Q: How many points for Kantor and Vulcan?
A: 1)Kantor 185
2)Vulkan 190

Q: Sorry - meant if you have an allied detachment of say Ultramarines with Tau, do the Ultramarines still benefit from CT despite being Allies?
A: Yes, their abilities will work on that detachment. They do not lose CT for allying.

http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?p=1397751#post1397751

Q: Do the AA tanks have to snapshot at ground targets (i.e. do they only have skyfire, but no interceptor?)
A: AA tanks do not have interceptor.

Q: Does honour guard get to keep both their weapon and 2+ save for their new low price?
A: HG get Arti armor and power weapons.

Q: Does Helbrecht gain Orbital Bombardment?
A: Helbrecht does not.

Q: Does Kantor still keep his 12" +1A bubble?
A: yes Kantor does.

Q: Thanks for the answer, do crusader squads have any other special rule besides ATSKNF and Chapter tactics?
A: No BT do not.

Q: How many points is a LS typhoon?
A: Typhoon 75 points

Q: How many points for a Dakka Pred/Las Pred?
A: Las 140 and Dakka 95

Q: Did they reduce the cost of the Captain?
A: Captain is 90

Q: Can models with different chapter tactics be in the same detachment? i.e. Can I take UM and IF in the same primary army then ally in some DA if I wanted them?
A: No they would have to ally those detachments together.

Q: How does work sergeants on tac squads? there is an extra cost for sergeant and veteran sergeant like dark angels?
A: Same as DA

Q: Any changes on attack bikes in cost, size of unit, etc.?
A: Attack bikes are now 45

Q: Is there any unit or weapon in the new codex with Interceptor rule?
A: No

Q: Any changes on Land Speeders?
A: Same

Q: Are crusader squad availabe to other chapter tactics than BT?
A: No

Q: Do Kantor and Helbrecht both have W4 A4 like the generic chapter masters now apparently get?
A: Yes

Q: Are Lysander's stats the same, wounds and such?
A: Same

Q: Legion of the damned weapon costs and special rules?
A: Went down and all their shooting attacks ignore cover.

Q: Can you go a little bit deeper into what the Chapter Relics are?
A: Going to cover on the show.

Q: Am I right to assume that generaly speaking, the costs of units and vehicles that are also in the DA book are the same as they are in that book?
A: Pretty close to each other.

Q: Is the Storm Talon the same cost as in Death from the Skies?
A: Yes.

Q: Can you use characters from a different Chapter than the one whose trait you are using? In other words, can I make an Iron Hands chapter but still use Tigurius, for example?
A: No.

Q: Does the Tactical trait affect only infantry units or does it affect vehicles too?
A: Yes.

Q: Do SM get their own Warlord Traits table, and if so, what are the traits?
A: Yes, we will cover it on the show.

Q: Does Calgar get to pick his traits or does he just get 3 rolls on the tables?
A: Three rolls on the chart, re-roll doubles.

Q: how do Grav weapons work on models who don't have armor saves (like Daemons)?
A: I would say a 5+, might be FAQed.

Q: Any change to shotguns?
A: Shotguns S4 assault 2.

Q: When you say you can ally out of the same codex, is that through the actual ally rules, or that you can mix two armies and their Chapter tactics?
A: You have to ally the two detachments.

Q: Raven Guard CT: is Stealth handed out to Vehicles too?
A: Yes, models in the detachment gain stealth.

Q: Khan: How much does he cost? How much does Moondrakkan cost?
A: Khan 125 and bike 25.

Q: Has the war gear for normal terminators changed .... Ie Can they take combi weapons?
A: No

Q: Any improvements to regular captains not previously mentioned? ie cheaper or wargear options besides the relics?
A: Pretty close to the same.

Q: Terminators of either type cheaper?
A: No.

Q: Scout bikers still lay mines or is that different?
A: Yes.

Q: Can we get elaboration on the Stalker? All I know right now is "S:7 Heavy4"
A: S7 AP4 Range 48"

Q: Can it split fire or something?
A: You can split fire

Q: Any special rules, or is it basically just two glorified AA-Autocannons?
A: Glorified Autocannon

Q: What is the range on the Hunter's gun?
A: 60"

Q: The Ultramarines' Tactical Doctrine only re-rolls 1's for shooting, right?

Q: Have Tigurius' stats changed at all?
A: Stats are the same.

Q: Does a bike Captain only make a bike squad a Troop if it numbers exactly 5 bikes, or or can it be a full "8 man + attack bike" squad?
A: At least 5 bikes can be up to 8.

Q: Anything changed with assault squads? Can they be taken as troops?
A: 17pts and can't be troops.

Q: Can command and honor guard take jump packs?
A: No.

Q: Do librarians have invuln saves? If not, can they buy them as upgrades?
A: Only in Terminator Armor.

Q: Do any of the characters or chapter tactics give fearless or stubborn?
A: No

Q: What about assault squads? Did their cost decrease a little too? Can they finally take meltaguns?
A: 17 Points and No Melta Guns.

Q: So for clarification on the bikes: any 1 bike unit of at least 5 models (of which one may be upgraded to an attack bike) can be a troop choice per captain on a bike in your army?
A: Correct.

Q: How many base attacks do Centurions have?
A: Centurions have A1. Centurion Sergeants have A2.

Q: Beyond being 15 pts cheaper, any changes to Sicarius?
A: You get +1 to reserves and no longer seize the initiative on a 5 or 6.

Q: How many power weapons can a Crusader squad take (besides the Sergeant) and is there an option to take a pair of lighting claws (either for normal BT marines or the Sergeant)
A: Power Weapon or Power Fist.

Q: Just to make sure I got it right, Honor Guard get: artificer armour, power weapon, Bolter and bolt pistol for 25 points? That sounds like a good deal even if they don't have a invul save.
A: Yes, but don't forget about the frag and krak grenades.

Q: Does the Ultramarine Tactical Doctrine trait (Rerolling Ones for non-tatical marines) apply to vehicles? (The answer before was unclear)
A: Yes, it says "models" in the detatchment. Vehicles are models.

Q: Does the rule for not taking non-chapter characters apply to Telion?
A: Telion is marked as an Ultramarine character and has CT(Ultramarines).

Q: Just to confirm, chapter tactics affect all models in a detachment, to include vehicles, unless otherwise stated, correct?
A: Yes.

Q: Lastly, is each gun on the Stalker Heavy 4 or is each gun Heavy 2?
A: Stalker is Heavy 4. There is an ability to fire at two separate targets. That will be covered on the next show.

Q: Does the Stalker and Hunter have Skyfire?

A: Yes, but they do not have interceptor.